Bailey to safety, please

[bud]

Fox said Champ is not moving to Safety. I think he's just too close to the situation and is not thinking what is best for the team. How can he watch the replay of that game and not think Champ's days at Corner are coming to an end?

Well, we said Tebow would be back as the starter... and, we said guys don't lose starting jobs to injuries.. There's all kinds of chatter out there.. Right after the season, the talk is usualy conservative.

It's a long offseason and Elway clearly hasn't made up his mind about where the team is going.. yet.

If Elway plans on Bailey playing safety, Fox will clam up and do what he's told.

I wouldn't expect to hear anything about moving Champ until training camp, anyhow.

Elway is a bright guy; I think it will happen. And, I bet Moore loses his job in the process.

[HolyDiver]

I think once training camp starts, everyone not named Manning or Miller will have to earn the starter spot. If Bolden, Carter, maybe a FA Corner and a draft pick (CB) come in and do well, Bailey may not have a choice. Or, he would have a choice but it would be something like, move to Safety, or we have to release you. Chris Harris is the only Cornerback on the roster right now that I feel we don't have to worry about.

[COsportsfan]

What a rediculous idea. Champ Bailey is still one of the top 5-10 cornerbacks in the NFL. If he has lost any athleticism in the past few years, it has been minimal at worst. Charels Woodson lost more than a step in speed, is not as fluid in the hips, and just fell of as a cover corner. Champ still has the fluidity, the strait line speed, and the closing speed to play corner at a very high level. One bad playoff game against one of the fastest WR's in football shouldn't condem him. Chris Harris was one of the best statistical corners in the league this season. Tony Carter would beat out just about any other fourth string corner in the league, and would compete with most for the third spot (considering he was not meant to be the third CB with Tracy Porter). All three of those guys will be back next year, and I would be very satisfied with the three of them, Omar Bolden, and a mid-to-late round rookie as the five corners next year.

I do agree with the notion that the Broncos need help at safety... But I do not think the problem is Moore. I was absolutely blown away by the improvement he made from last season in open field tackling. Moore went from a liability against the run, to one of the best tackling safeties in the NFL. He is very good in coverage and generally plays with great angles towards the ball. He was responsible for the worst play of the season at the end of regulation against Baltimore, but a season of good play says that it was an isolated incident.

Mike Adams, on the other hand, is a bum. Since he arrived in Denver, the secondary has repeated harped on his ability to get them into the right coverage and his general awareness on the field. I cannot speak to this, as I do not know the intracacies of coverage audibles or alignments, but I can point out two of his biggest flaws. First, the Broncos use him a lot in man coverage due to exotic blitzing.... or at least they tried to during the first half of the season. It quickly became apparent that Adams could not be trusted to stick to his man. Specifically, I am talking about tight ends. Tight ends are becoming a hot commodity in the league. Teams need at least one good man coverage linebacker and safety. Later in the season when the Broncos wanted to go man-to-man on a tight end, they brought in Leonard over Adams... which led to a huge third down conversion against Baltimore. 5 foot nothin Leonard had no chance against Pitta running spit seams with the wide out. Secondly, Adams has terrible closing speed in coverage. There are many times, specifically on thrid down, that the coverage and sceme justify a thrid down stop... But the pass is completed in front of Adams and he can't close in on the WR or TE in time to deflect the pass or make the tackle in time.

I do see how Champ moving to safety is can be suggested, but then who is the #1 corner? Chris Harris? I'd venture to say that his production would steadily decrease if he had to face consistant #1 WR and didn't have Champ on the other side. Who is the #2 corner? Tony Carter? I said above that he would compete with a lot of #3 corners in the league. That being said, he would be a bottom tier #2 corner and a complete libility against bigger, phyisical WR's.

So do you draft a CB to take the #1 or #2 spot? To find a CB that is assumed starter ready, the Broncos would need to use their first round pick or trade up in the second round. With the Broncos having the top ranked pass defense, as well as the most sacks in the NFL, I think there are bigger areas to fix early in the draft.

So do you go with a free agent? Brent Grimes, Aquib Talib, Cary Williams, Derek Cox, D. Rodgers-Cromartie, and Sean Smith are the starters hitting free agency. Grimes is coming off a season ending injury, Talib has had legal issues his entire career, Williams will likely stay in Baltimore, Cox has missed 17 games in the last three years, and Cromartie is fast, but thats about as far as his skills go..... Are any of these guys better than, or even as good as, Champ Bailey? Not even close.

So I ask you: Who would you assume to start if Champ made the move to safety? I can see the Broncos adding one corner to the roster this off season to replace Tracey Porter (that is assuming they do not attempt to resign him or give him the franchise tag... he didn't exactly put up a lot of film this season for the free agent market). As far as the draft goes, I would be incredibly dissappointed to see Denver draft a CB over MLB, SS, DT, interior OL, RB or TE. The Broncos have big needs at all of these positions, and need to build depth across the board. I would argueably say that CB is the strongest and deepest position on the field, but removing Champ from that group would make it a liability.

[CasinoRoyal]

your dillusional if you think champ is still elite lol. Ive always been a champ guy and proudly saying we had the best cb in the game. But its over. Anytime a guy just runs a go route witjout moves or anything and your 6 steps behind him everytime youve lost ALOT of speed. They didnt come out attacking harris and others, they came out and went after champ... Which wouldnt have happens prior to the last few years.. charles woodson could still play corner if he wanyed to but he realizes hes a mucj better safety tjan corner at this stage and this is champs deal also but hes in denial

[CasinoRoyal]

but yeah adams is a bum.

[HolyDiver]

What a rediculous idea. Champ Bailey is still one of the top 5-10 cornerbacks in the NFL. If he has lost any athleticism in the past few years, it has been minimal at worst. Charels Woodson lost more than a step in speed, is not as fluid in the hips, and just fell of as a cover corner. Champ still has the fluidity, the strait line speed, and the closing speed to play corner at a very high level. One bad playoff game against one of the fastest WR's in football shouldn't condem him. Chris Harris was one of the best statistical corners in the league this season. Tony Carter would beat out just about any other fourth string corner in the league, and would compete with most for the third spot (considering he was not meant to be the third CB with Tracy Porter). All three of those guys will be back next year, and I would be very satisfied with the three of them, Omar Bolden, and a mid-to-late round rookie as the five corners next year.

I do agree with the notion that the Broncos need help at safety... But I do not think the problem is Moore. I was absolutely blown away by the improvement he made from last season in open field tackling. Moore went from a liability against the run, to one of the best tackling safeties in the NFL. He is very good in coverage and generally plays with great angles towards the ball. He was responsible for the worst play of the season at the end of regulation against Baltimore, but a season of good play says that it was an isolated incident.

Mike Adams, on the other hand, is a bum. Since he arrived in Denver, the secondary has repeated harped on his ability to get them into the right coverage and his general awareness on the field. I cannot speak to this, as I do not know the intracacies of coverage audibles or alignments, but I can point out two of his biggest flaws. First, the Broncos use him a lot in man coverage due to exotic blitzing.... or at least they tried to during the first half of the season. It quickly became apparent that Adams could not be trusted to stick to his man. Specifically, I am talking about tight ends. Tight ends are becoming a hot commodity in the league. Teams need at least one good man coverage linebacker and safety. Later in the season when the Broncos wanted to go man-to-man on a tight end, they brought in Leonard over Adams... which led to a huge third down conversion against Baltimore. 5 foot nothin Leonard had no chance against Pitta running spit seams with the wide out. Secondly, Adams has terrible closing speed in coverage. There are many times, specifically on thrid down, that the coverage and sceme justify a thrid down stop... But the pass is completed in front of Adams and he can't close in on the WR or TE in time to deflect the pass or make the tackle in time.

I do see how Champ moving to safety is can be suggested, but then who is the #1 corner? Chris Harris? I'd venture to say that his production would steadily decrease if he had to face consistant #1 WR and didn't have Champ on the other side. Who is the #2 corner? Tony Carter? I said above that he would compete with a lot of #3 corners in the league. That being said, he would be a bottom tier #2 corner and a complete libility against bigger, phyisical WR's.

So do you draft a CB to take the #1 or #2 spot? To find a CB that is assumed starter ready, the Broncos would need to use their first round pick or trade up in the second round. With the Broncos having the top ranked pass defense, as well as the most sacks in the NFL, I think there are bigger areas to fix early in the draft.

So do you go with a free agent? Brent Grimes, Aquib Talib, Cary Williams, Derek Cox, D. Rodgers-Cromartie, and Sean Smith are the starters hitting free agency. Grimes is coming off a season ending injury, Talib has had legal issues his entire career, Williams will likely stay in Baltimore, Cox has missed 17 games in the last three years, and Cromartie is fast, but thats about as far as his skills go..... Are any of these guys better than, or even as good as, Champ Bailey? Not even close.

So I ask you: Who would you assume to start if Champ made the move to safety? I can see the Broncos adding one corner to the roster this off season to replace Tracey Porter (that is assuming they do not attempt to resign him or give him the franchise tag... he didn't exactly put up a lot of film this season for the free agent market). As far as the draft goes, I would be incredibly dissappointed to see Denver draft a CB over MLB, SS, DT, interior OL, RB or TE. The Broncos have big needs at all of these positions, and need to build depth across the board. I would argueably say that CB is the strongest and deepest position on the field, but removing Champ from that group would make it a liability.

I would start Harris and Bolden. I think Bolden will improve drastically, as will Wolfe and remember, he was a #1 talent before injuring his knee and missing the entire 2012 season. I want to get the best talent in the Secondary, on the field at the same time. That would be Harris, Bolden ( my prediction) Champ and probably either Moore of Carter. Champ was beaten often throughout the season and it's obvious he is considerably slower. Besides, playing Safety he will have more opportunities to make the big play. His int's should go way up. Hopefully, we draft a guy like David Amerson, Desmond Trufant or another top CB in this draft. also, Rogers-Cromartie is a FA and he would easily start over Champ. This is something like when Atwater was released after 9 seasons with the Broncos. He just wasn't the same player anymore.

[COsportsfan]

Casino: I didn't say that Champ is elite... I said he is still one of the top 5-10 cornerbacks in the NFL (elite, as far as corners go, is Revis and no one else). If you can point out more than 5 corners that you would take over Champ, with valid points, I'll concede to your point. (and I am not talking about potential for the future... I'm only worried about next year.)

Bailey was beaten, and badly, a few times on go routes against Torrey Smith in the Divisional game. You make it seem like that is the easiest route to defend. Trust me, a go route is not an easy route to defend. If you turn your hips just a half step late, it is easy to fall "6 steps", as you said, behind. Torrey Smith is flat out fast. Baltimore is notorious for running the same system reguardless of the personel on defense. Joe Flacco throws the ball deep whenever he sees a one-on-one. He has a very good deep pass with very good velosity. Champ did get beat, and he is a big reason why the Broncos lost the game against the Ravens.

If you can point out any other game during the season when Champ was consistantly beaten, please enlighten me.

Diver: I truely hope you are right about Omar Bolden. I loved the pick last year, and I think he will compete with Tony Carter for the nickle corner next season. As far as putting the best talent on the field at the same time, I think it is a bit presumptuos to think moving Champ to safety would do that. I believe in Raheem Moore. I think he is an asset in the passing and running game. If Champ were to move to safety, I think he would be used more like Ed Reed and less like Charles Woodson. Woodson and Bailey had very different playing styles in their primes. Woodson has played at the line of scrimmage, using his build, strength, press coverage, and blitzing skills to his advantage. Bailey has almost exclusively played off the line, using his quick reactions and fluid hips to make plays. Woodson is now used in the box, more as a strong safety than a free safety. Champ, I would think, would be used over the top as a free safety. Unless the Broncos want to move to a Tampa-2 defense (which would certainly hurt Von Miller), where the safeties are hardly ever in the box and always spit over the top, moving Champ would limit the effectivness of Raheem Moore. Moore is a natural free safety. With the way he has improved from last season to this season, a move to strong safety would most likely stunt his growth. Strong safety, in Del Rio's system, plays closer to the line than FS. SS has more responsibility to underneath coverage and man coverage. In short, strong safety is a very different position than free safety in this system.

Back to your original point: You would like to see the best talent in the secondary on the field at the same time. It is my belief that Raheem Moore is a strength of the defense moving forward. Moving Champ to safety would most likely mean a postion change for Moore as well. In essance, two of the better players in the secondary would be unknowns going into next season. Also, if Champ were to return to cornerback and Bolden were to make the improvements you are hoping for, the Broncos would own one of the best 1-2-3 punches at CB next season... Considering how often teams were trying to throw their way back into games this season against Denver, 3 quality CB's could only be a good thing.

And one final point. Most mock drafts have Matt Elam (SS from Florida) going in the early picks of the second round. He led the Gators in tackles as a sophomore and was second on the team this season. He plays close to the line and is a good tackler when his isn't trying to stip the ball (which is often and, I think, a good thing). Elam has great closing speed and hits with temendous leverage, hardly ever getting pushed backwards. I love his build, his style and his speed. More than anything, I love the way Florida used him in man to man. Rather than bringing in a nickle corner, most of the time they would put Elam in the slot. From there, did everything from blitzing, man-to-man and zone coverage. If he is available (and the Broncos don't see Quinton Carter as the answer at SS) I would LOVE to see him in orange and blue again next year. (YouTube offers a lot of full game film for Elam as well as highlights)

[HolyDiver]

Casino: I didn't say that Champ is elite... I said he is still one of the top 5-10 cornerbacks in the NFL (elite, as far as corners go, is Revis and no one else). If you can point out more than 5 corners that you would take over Champ, with valid points, I'll concede to your point. (and I am not talking about potential for the future... I'm only worried about next year.)

Bailey was beaten, and badly, a few times on go routes against Torrey Smith in the Divisional game. You make it seem like that is the easiest route to defend. Trust me, a go route is not an easy route to defend. If you turn your hips just a half step late, it is easy to fall "6 steps", as you said, behind. Torrey Smith is flat out fast. Baltimore is notorious for running the same system reguardless of the personel on defense. Joe Flacco throws the ball deep whenever he sees a one-on-one. He has a very good deep pass with very good velosity. Champ did get beat, and he is a big reason why the Broncos lost the game against the Ravens.

If you can point out any other game during the season when Champ was consistantly beaten, please enlighten me.

Diver: I truely hope you are right about Omar Bolden. I loved the pick last year, and I think he will compete with Tony Carter for the nickle corner next season. As far as putting the best talent on the field at the same time, I think it is a bit presumptuos to think moving Champ to safety would do that. I believe in Raheem Moore. I think he is an asset in the passing and running game. If Champ were to move to safety, I think he would be used more like Ed Reed and less like Charles Woodson. Woodson and Bailey had very different playing styles in their primes. Woodson has played at the line of scrimmage, using his build, strength, press coverage, and blitzing skills to his advantage. Bailey has almost exclusively played off the line, using his quick reactions and fluid hips to make plays. Woodson is now used in the box, more as a strong safety than a free safety. Champ, I would think, would be used over the top as a free safety. Unless the Broncos want to move to a Tampa-2 defense (which would certainly hurt Von Miller), where the safeties are hardly ever in the box and always spit over the top, moving Champ would limit the effectivness of Raheem Moore. Moore is a natural free safety. With the way he has improved from last season to this season, a move to strong safety would most likely stunt his growth. Strong safety, in Del Rio's system, plays closer to the line than FS. SS has more responsibility to underneath coverage and man coverage. In short, strong safety is a very different position than free safety in this system.

Back to your original point: You would like to see the best talent in the secondary on the field at the same time. It is my belief that Raheem Moore is a strength of the defense moving forward. Moving Champ to safety would most likely mean a postion change for Moore as well. In essance, two of the better players in the secondary would be unknowns going into next season. Also, if Champ were to return to cornerback and Bolden were to make the improvements you are hoping for, the Broncos would own one of the best 1-2-3 punches at CB next season... Considering how often teams were trying to throw their way back into games this season against Denver, 3 quality CB's could only be a good thing.

And one final point. Most mock drafts have Matt Elam (SS from Florida) going in the early picks of the second round. He led the Gators in tackles as a sophomore and was second on the team this season. He plays close to the line and is a good tackler when his isn't trying to stip the ball (which is often and, I think, a good thing). Elam has great closing speed and hits with temendous leverage, hardly ever getting pushed backwards. I love his build, his style and his speed. More than anything, I love the way Florida used him in man to man. Rather than bringing in a nickle corner, most of the time they would put Elam in the slot. From there, did everything from blitzing, man-to-man and zone coverage. If he is available (and the Broncos don't see Quinton Carter as the answer at SS) I would LOVE to see him in orange and blue again next year. (YouTube offers a lot of full game film for Elam as well as highlights)

I really like Matt Elam. if you pay attention to the prospects rankings, they change daily. Elam was ranked around 30th a month ago. Today, he is #43. I think Elam at SS and champ at FS, along with Revis, Harris, Bolden and Carter would be special. So, two things have to happen for this to play out. First, we would have to surrender our #1 pic (28th overall) to the Jets for Revis. Second, we would have to hope Elam falls another 16 spots to around 60, so we could take him with our 2nd round pick. Neither are going to happen IMO. So we are right back to who starts at Corner. If Champ is the best or second best Corner in camp, then he remains the starter, but if he's the 3rd best Corner, why not put him at SS, and you could then leave Moore at FS or whoever wins that position. I liked Moore a lot during the season but the play at the 30 second mark, showed me more than I cared to see. I just have doubts about him that i didn't before the raven game.

[zambini15]

i think you all know i am a big champ as safety proponent, but..
regardless of what we all think, it is chaMP WHO MUST SEE THE WISDOM OF A MOVE.
and i dont think his ego will allow him to reach that conclusion.
champ is not used to being challenged like he was against BALT. and we are not used to seeing him being thrown at.
based on the results, and the quality of competition on the other side of the field, we will most likely see more of it.
CHAMP WONT BE LIVING OFF REPUTATION, HE WILL HAVE TO LIVE OFF WEEKLY PERFORMANCE.
is he going to be up to the challenge, especially going 1 on 1 against the oppopnents best, with no safety help?
if not, JDR is going to have to change his secondary deployment.
if you look at the top defenses in the NFL, most feature an impact safety tandem.
having the best cover corner in the league just means you end up playing 10 on 10 football, just ask the jets.

[HolyDiver]

i think you all know i am a big champ as safety proponent, but..
regardless of what we all think, it is chaMP WHO MUST SEE THE WISDOM OF A MOVE.
and i dont think his ego will allow him to reach that conclusion.
champ is not used to being challenged like he was against BALT. and we are not used to seeing him being thrown at.
based on the results, and the quality of competition on the other side of the field, we will most likely see more of it.
CHAMP WONT BE LIVING OFF REPUTATION, HE WILL HAVE TO LIVE OFF WEEKLY PERFORMANCE.
is he going to be up to the challenge, especially going 1 on 1 against the oppopnents best, with no safety help?
if not, JDR is going to have to change his secondary deployment.
if you look at the top defenses in the NFL, most feature an impact safety tandem.
having the best cover corner in the league just means you end up playing 10 on 10 football, just ask the jets.

Champ is too arrogant to say, okay, I'm ready to move to Safety. He will think he's a top corner in the league until he retires. I just think the Broncos, AS A TEAM, are way better off with him playing Safety. We draft a top Corner and our Safety issues are over. If we went DT, CB and SS, like Robert Lester or a handful of SS that will be available in the 3rd, that could turn out to be the smartest way to work this draft. We would still have a major problem at MLB'er and that would put a lot of pressure on Nate Irving moving to MLB'er. One way to solve that would be to re-sign Vickerson and sign a top DT in free agency, freeing up our #1 pick to draft a MLB'er. Manti Te'o has been on my wish list all season, but his poor play in the BCS Championship game and the ridiculous fake girlfriend thing, really makes me weary of him now. Whatever we do, the first 3 rounds need to end up starting.

[obi-groo]

I hope Manti Te'o does not end up on any team in this division. I am so sick of hearing about this stupid fake girlfriend of his. If he ends up in this division then we will always have to hear about it. I turn on the radio wanting to hear some serious football or baseball talk and all I hear for hours is this boring story about Te'o. Please....no more! EVER! I hope he fades away and is not heard from in football again.

[HolyDiver]

I hope Manti Te'o does not end up on any team in this division. I am so sick of hearing about this stupid fake girlfriend of his. If he ends up in this division then we will always have to hear about it. I turn on the radio wanting to hear some serious football or baseball talk and all I hear for hours is this boring story about Te'o. Please....no more! EVER! I hope he fades away and is not heard from in football again.

If any player in this draft has a chance of falling off the face of the Earth, it's Te'o. He finished a solid 2nd in Heisman voting and was ranked 5th best player in the nation, just a month ago. Today, he's 38th. Either someone is going to get one hell of a steal if they draft him, or some other team, hopefully the Chiefs, Raiders or Chargers, take him with their #1 pick and he's a bust.

[CasinoRoyal]

bust